Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

I admire him for doing this. It is risky, but also wise. May all of us be willing to look within and be honest about who we are and where we are. Best wishes to Piper and his family.

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Wow, Wyman. Thank you for posting this. I only really know him through his debates with Tom Wright, and as I have sided with Wright haven't given much attention to Piper. This has really made me think, and as it has with you, made me introspective.

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

I have mixed feelings about this whole deal. First, being a pastor, I know the demands of ministry (and that is just on the local level and not international like Piper). Time is scarce and demands are overwhelming. My concern though is the message that this sends. Many have looked to Piper as a role model for ministry and yet it seems as though he has not properly handled his priorities. So the answer (I'm not at all questioning the guiding of the Holy Spirit) is for John Piper is to take 8 months off? To me this communicates that it is not possible for him to work through these things in the context of the ministry to which God has called him. How then do pastors, without the name and fame of Piper, handle the same stress. I would guess that 90% of churches would never go for something like this - So what does this communicate to the average pastor? I guess I would much rather see him work through the adjustments that need to be made in his life within the context of the ministry that God has called him to. The primary reason is that I believe this would make the most lasting impact because even though priorities and all may be fine during the 8 months off, what is he going to do when he steps back into the world of ministry? I also think it would model before his people the proper way to handle priorities within the context of everyday life (I would be willing to say that very few of his congregants could leave their job for 8 months and survive). By the way he is the one that chose to be in the public spotlight so by default he is a model and example for the average pastor.

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Pastor Kennedy,

I deeply appreciate your comment. I had considered adding my own but couldn't find the words. You found them for me so I simply add my agreement to what you said re: Dr. Piper.

An additional comment in response to '90% of churches would never go for something like this.' I agree with that too. But I wonder how many churches might go for it if asked? For example, 2 years ago I requested that my church approve a sabbatical leave for me should I reach my seventh year as their pastor. The leadership then - and now - unanimously approved the request, so I will be enjoying a much needed 7 week sabbatical later this year. Granted, its not 8 months, and it is not the result of perceived character flaws that need to be addressed. My point is, my church never would have made the offer if I hadn't asked. There are more dynamics to this process to consider than I need to present in this comment space, but maybe our churches are more gracious than we assume.

By the way, I readily admit to my various and sundry character flaws. I am forced to work them out in the context of ministry as you suggest, because neither 7 weeks nor 8 months would be enough time to purge them.

Thanks again for your excellent comment. Yours, Lee

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Dave,

Thanks for your comment bro. "Risky but wise" pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Will,

Hey man. I appreciate your comments. You are a credit to the Methodists! ;-) It's odd you mention the justification debate. I'm midway through Piper's book and will read Wright's response afterwards. I appreciate both of those guys, but I find Piper's argumentation thus far to be powerful (you're probably no more surprised by that than I am by your finding Wright's arguments persuasive!). But more on that when I finish Wright. Your comment, though, does make me worry: I joined the Evangelical Theological Society this year (at the cost of $35) primarily for the chance to see Piper and Wright (and Frank Thielman) in a two-hour debate at the ETS meeting in Atlanta this Fall. Now it occurs to me, if I've read Piper rightly, that that debate won't happen. Drat! That was going to be interesting. (Of course, Will, you likely think that Piper was so terrified at the prospect of facing Wright that he concocted this whole thing! ;-) Just kidding man!)

Michael and Lee,

I'm kind of "yes, but..." on your comments. Michael, you owe me lunch at The Roman Oven, so I'm already miffed at you. ;-) he he he Lee, you owe me...well, nothing I guess, but I will still exact payment when/if I see you in Santa Fe! But seriously, yeah, I immediately thought too of what you said about the average guy not having the luxury of eight months off. You are correct. But I will say that Piper did not ask to be payed. Now, the average guy could quit for eight months, but the average guy, like me, couldn't live eight months without an income! But Piper's ability to sustain himself for that long changes the dynamics a bit. Plus, his church is a Baptist church and can/could simply say, "No, you're fired." But they didn't. Or the elders didn't - which appears to be legit based on their polity.

As for this move demonstrating that you can't work out your problems in the context of local ministry, I guess I can see that to some extent. Eight months seems a bit much to me. But then I have no idea what's happening in his life or marriage or how extreme it is. So I have to ask myself: if a guy has the means to do this, and the church allows him, then maybe he should. I don't know. Again, I'm no apologist for Piper, but I think all in all this is admirable. For instance, I immediately thought of Charles Stanley. Stanley certainly could've taken eight months off, but he took not time off during his divorce. I should wish he would've!

I guess part of me feels (and I suspect you guys feel the same) that while we may question the particulars of this thing, it is nice to see a guy (apparently) catch himself before a colossal mistake is made and do whatever he needs to do for his marriage and his life.

Yeah, Piper is in a privileged position, and that means - as he openly acknowledges - that he can do some things in this situation that the average pastor can't. But I do applaud him for calling out his own character struggles and making the steps to remedy these things.

As for sabbaticals, Lee, what on earth are you going to do for seven weeks? :-)

Good discussion.

W

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

W,

For seven weeks? Let's see, read, sleep, be at home most days when my kids get off from school, visit our eldest at his new digs at college, get in my wife's way, see friends in Georgia . . . you know, all those things that people like Piper claim they're too busy to do until its too late then need 8 months off to try to reconnect. Or, I'll use the time to finish my D.Min. project. I'll figure it out. I do wish more churches would see the wisdom of pro-actively building in these types of incentives for their staff. Knowing this was coming for me in my 7th year was further motivation for me to stay where I am and its coming at a time when I can really use it but its not an emergency, 'If I don't get it I'll crash and burn' situation, if you take my meaning. I think if its done right opportunities like this can be a win/win for everybody. Unfortunately, from what I can tell not many churches consider this for their staff and not many staff members feel confident that they could request it. Of course, it helps to have a positive relationship with church leadership who, at my church, have been universally supportive about the idea.

And when (not if) you can come to Santa Fe in May, we'll determine who owes what to whom.

Yours, L

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

L,

I'm eternally in your debt, of course, for putting up with me as a teenager! That couldn't have been easy...though it was a LOT of fun, no?

But: "you know, all those things that people like Piper claim they're too busy to do until its too late then need 8 months off to try to reconnect."

Sheesh bro! I grant you that eight months is eyebrow-raising, but man we're being hard on this guy. Excessive though it may be, I hope a major disaster is averted, the kind that brings shame on the name of the church all too often because of guys who never see their own failures and who do nothing about it. For myself, I wish there were more pastors on the kind of stage he's on who'd do stuff like this. As you point out, he should've been doing it all along. Of course. That's the nature of a mistake. To my knowledge he's never taken an eight-month relationship-salvaging sabbatical and I bet he'll never do it again. He's in his sixties and he's messed up big-time apparently and he's obviously doing what he thinks he needs to do to get this right. Good for him, I say.

I've never taken a sabbatical of any kind and have none scheduled, but I do hope that if I ended up in the place Piper is, and if I had the means, and if my church granted permission on the basis of its own polity (in his case, elders), I'd do it.

I get the critique, and to an extent I agree, but man alive you dudes are rough! ;-)

Lovingly and with appreciation, of course...
W

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

W,

Somehow I have not communicated all of what I intended. If Dr. Piper needs the time and his congregation is willing to grant it, then I commend them both for the effort (not that either need my approval). Also, I give Dr. Piper full credit for offering to take the time without pay. That was a gracious offer, and his church was most gracious to reject it, especially in these economic times. If his time away from ministry improves his family life and his ministry, then his family, his church and God's Kingdom will all be the better for it. In that respect, I say 'Good for him' too.

But now to you. Why don't you have a sabbatical scheduled? Would you accept one if offered? Do you take enough time away from your work on a regular basis to stay connected to your lovely wife and daughter so that you won't need an emergency 8 months off when you're in your sixties? I have seen and read enough stories like Dr. Piper's and all the requisite statistics on ministerial burn-out and depression to know that no one is immune from the travails of serving as a pastor, no matter the size of the congregation. I will forever be grateful to my father, a retired pastor of 50+ years experience, for the weekend retreat home he and my mom built so that they could take my brother and me out of town regularly so that dad could get away from the phone, meetings, demands, etc. just to be with us. His ministry benefitted from it, and so has mine.

I'm not advocating a yearly sabbatical leave, which I know some pastors take. We do have a job, for crying out loud, and we need to serve God's kingdom diligently. And not everyone serves a church that would grant 8 months or 7 weeks as Pastor Kennedy pointed out, but the time to work on avoiding the need for an 8 month emergency leave of absence is now, not when you are in your sixties. We are in this for the long haul and that means we need to seek rest, restoration, relaxation and quality time with family all along the way, not when it may be too late.

Forgive your former youth pastor for preaching at you (and your readers), but I want you (and your readers) (and me) faithfully and joyfully serving God's Kingdom for as long as possible, and that means at least occasionally taking significant, intentional time away from the constant demands of ministry. Dr. Piper's situation should at least serve as a warning and an encouragement in that direction.

I enjoy these internet discussions, but too often the tenor of my comments are misconstrued without the benefit of immediate dialogue and facial and tonal expression. If my comments come across as too preachy or accusatory I'm afraid it is the nature of the medium - and the job. Please forgive me. And I've never liked using those emoticon thingees to lighten up the conversation. :^)

Yours, L

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

"but the time to work on avoiding the need for an 8 month emergency leave of absence is now, not when you are in your sixties. We are in this for the long haul and that means we need to seek rest, restoration, relaxation and quality time with family all along the way, not when it may be too late."

I agree 100%. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

I have no objection to sabbaticals and I hope I never in any way said so. I suspect I'll take one somewhere along the line. I work really hard at trying to spend as much time as possible with the lovely Mrs. and Miss Richardson, and I suspect one day a sabbatical will be a part of that. I truly don't do as well as I'd like at spending time with those most important to me.

Preach on. I receive it gladly!

I say, "Good for you!" for having one. Maybe I will too one day.

:-) ;-) :-o <:-, :D :-k :-p ;o) (:-])

W

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

W,

For crying out loud, get back to work.

(Insert appropriate emoticon thingee of choice here.)

L

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Lee,

I'm taking a sabbatical from these comments.

ba-da-da-da-dum!! Ha!

W

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Wyman,

I'm thankful that Piper is open enough to admit his struggles. While I am not a minister, I find it refreshing that he openly admits his frailties and that he's humble enough to ask for a reprieve. I dare say that few of us would understand the pressures that Piper has endured for all of these years (and it has been many, many years).

Given the pressures of ministry, I think many a pastor have fallen simply because he didn't take time to step back, rest and evaluate.

Winston Churchill said that fatigue makes cowards of us all.

I think it wise, if you can, to step back, relax, and evaluate. I have worked 50 to 60 hours a week since Christmas, not a prudent way to live life and while I don't work such hours all year, I still wish I could take a leave of absence - i"m like you, I can't afford to. But I would if I could and I surely don't fault another man for doing so.

Piper, to me, is one of the great voices of our time.

I pray the time off will refresh our brother and may he find increased strength and refreshment.

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

I say give Lee Herring all the sabbatical leave he wants. After a few years of torture with the Richardson boys, he more than deserves it.

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Charles,

Thanks for you comments brother. They are appreciated!

Dave,

What are you talking about? Ministering to the brothers Richardson must have been a pure unmitigated thrill for Boyd Lee Herring! I mean, how could it not be? [snickering]

W

Re: John Piper Takes Leave of Absence Over "Ongoing Character Flaws"

Dear Sir,

As the pure unmitigated thrill of a root canal.

Sincerely,
Rev. B. Lee Herring